Legislative reform - a veterinary nursing perspective

Abi Judd-English (00:24)

Hi there and welcome to this month's episode of the RCVS podcast, giving you an insight into everything that's going on at the College, explaining why we do what we do, how we do it and how we can all work together as we continue to support the advancement of the veterinary professions. I'm Abi Judd-English, a member of the RCVS Communications Team and today we're going to be talking about the reform of the Veterinary Surgeons Act from a veterinary nursing perspective with our Head of Policy, Insights and Public Affairs, Ben Myring, our Chair of Veterinary Nurses Council, Belinda Andrews-Jones, and our Director of Veterinary Nursing, Julie Dugmore. We'll be covering the all-important questions, including why reform of the VSA is so important, what it could mean for veterinary nurses and the wider veterinary team, and how this links to our recently published response to DEFRA's consultation on the proposed new legislation. I'll then be rejoined by Julie and Jill MacDonald, our Veterinary Nursing and Progressive Development Lead, to chat about our VN Vision project - exploring the development of the veterinary nurse role and how team-based veterinary healthcare can be reimagined to maximise efficiency, enhance job satisfaction and improve access to care for animal owners. But before we delve into that, it's time for our usual news update summarising some of the key stories from across the College.

Abi Judd-English (01:51)

With around one week to go until DEFRA's consultation on the reform of the Veterinary Surgeons Act draws to a close, don't miss your opportunity to have your say. And if you're pushed for time, please remember that you don't have to complete the whole consultation, but can respond to the sections of most interest and relevance to you. For example, around veterinary nursing, mandatory practice regulation, or fitness to practice reform. Earlier this month, we published our organisational response to the consultation which welcomes DEFRA's incorporation of many of our long-standing recommendations for legislative change. You can read our full response and complete the consultation for yourself via our Time for Change page, the link to which is in the show notes.

In other news, voting has now opened for our 2026 RCVS Council election, with veterinary surgeons being able to vote for up to three of the 15 candidates standing this year before 5pm on Friday the 24th of April, 2026. As there were only two candidates standing for Veterinary Nurses Council this year for the two available places, there will be no VN Council election. The two candidates will automatically be welcomed as new VN Council members in the summer.

At the March RCVS Council meeting, Council voted for Chair of our Education Committee, Professor David Barrett FRCVS, to become Junior Vice President at Royal College Day this year. At the ceremony, we will also welcome new incoming President, Tim Hutchinson, while current President, Professor Tim Parkin, will take up his role as Senior Vice President.

Elsewhere across the College, this month we launched our new website, providing improved access to information and services putting our users and their needs at the heart of its design. The new site, which replaces the previous one dating back to 2011, brings together the separate websites for professionals, animal owners and the RCVS Mind Matters Initiative, so that resources which were previously published across separate web pages are now easy to find within a single coherent structure.

Over in our Academy Team, we're proud to announce the launch of our new time management course, providing veterinary professionals with practical strategies to prioritise effectively, manage competing demands and work more sustainably in busy veterinary workplaces. Our Academy is free to access for all veterinary surgeons and registered veterinary nurses and houses a whole host of CPD courses in a range of areas. You can find the link to the RCVS Academy and find out more about all our latest news stories via the link in the show notes.

Ben Myring (04:24)

Hello everyone. We are here today to talk about legislative reform, and in particular, we're focusing on veterinary nursing. You'll hear this several times through this discussion, that this is a really important moment. There's a consultation open from DEFRA and it's very important that everybody takes the opportunity to respond to it in order to increase the chances of us getting legislative reform.

You will hear several people say that during the course of this, but that's because of how important it is. But yes, my name is Ben Myring. I'm the Head of Policy, Insights and Public Affairs at the RCVS. And with me, we also have, Jules.

Julie Dugmore (05:00)

Hi everybody, my name is Julie Dugmore. I'm a registered veterinary nurse and Director of Veterinary Nursing here at the RCVS.

Ben Myring (05:07)

And we also have Belinda.

Belinda Andrews-Jones (05:08)

I'm Belinda Andrews-Jones, I'm a registered veterinary nurse and I'm also a chair of the RCVS VN Council. I'm also chair of Standards and I'm also on the main Council. And in my day job, I'm a veterinary nurse, I'm the Head of New Practice Operations at Hello Vet.

Ben Myring (05:22)

Thank you. did you want to kick us off with some opening comments? I know you also think this is a very important moment.

Belinda Andrews-Jones (05:28)

Yes, this is incredibly important. This is what the veterinary profession and veterinary nurses have been waiting for for decades and I certainly have. This can't come any sooner. Government have finally gone into consultation about the reform of the Veterinary Surgeons Act of 1966. This is not a normal survey. I know you do lots of surveys, lots of different ones. This is different. This is a really, really important one. It has the power to change the veterinary profession for the future.

It closes on the 25th of March. It does take a little bit of time, but it's extremely important for everybody to respond as much as possible and we're here to explain more.

Ben Myring (06:01)

Yeah, and worth adding that you may find that there are parts of the consultation that you don't have strong feelings about, but there are others you may do, especially the stuff around veterinary nursing. And so you can choose to not answer some questions and answer others if you are pressed for time. But the RCVS alongside BVA and BVNA have been calling for reform for many years, as you know. And we are finally in a situation where the current government seems keen on actually introducing new legislation. And we spent much of last year between, I think it was January and August, having two meetings a week, two half day meetings a week with the government to discuss what that reform should look like. Happily, they started with the RCVS recommendations. And that was the sort of starting point for all of our discussions, because we'd already put the thought in there. And the consultation that's come around, looks a lot like the recommendations that we initially made, and most of the things that we asked for are in that consultation. So today we will take you through the key bits of that legislative reform. So we'll talk about licensing reform, which yes, would include protection of the veterinary nurse title. We'll talk a bit about practice regulation and how that fits in with the Competition and Markets Authority Investigation. A bit around allied professionals and how they all fit in and fitness to practise, which is disciplinary reform. And finally, a little bit about governance reform too and how we're looking to modernize there. But kicking off with a brief explanation around the licensing reform, I'm going to hand over to Jules.

Julie Dugmore (07:28)

So the thing I wanted to sort of pick up on from your little section there Ben was about protecting of the title which is what always gets people talking. It's the bit that people are very excited about and I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's about fairness, it's about recognition and it's about trust and this is hugely important for veterinary nurses who go through significant training. They undertake many exams and assessments. They meet professional standards and they're regulated by the RCVS. They're skilled clinicians. They're not support staff. They are essential members of the veterinary healthcare team. Protecting the title, I think, recognises that. It acknowledges that veterinary nursing is a skilled and professional role, but it's not just about status, it's not just about the profession itself, it's also about members of the public. And if a member of the public hears somebody calling themselves a veterinary nurse, then they should have the confidence that that person is skilled, qualified and regulated. And also, the protection of the title sort of ensures that for the public and it's good for those who rely on professionals to care for their animals. In terms of regulation from an RCVS perspective, we are looking at potentially regulating other healthcare providers. So when we talk about healthcare, we often think it is just veterinary surgeons and veterinary nurses, but it's not. There's lots of other skilled professionals out there who also contribute to animal health and welfare. For example, your musculoskeletal therapists, your physiotherapists, probably vet techs. So as we regulate those, it will be good for us to also have the protection of the title for everybody that is within that healthcare remit. So the public is assured that whoever they might get referred to is actually properly qualified, professional, and regulated.

Ben Myring (09:28)

Thanks Jules. Belinda, do you want to say a little more about that public assurance aspect to this?

Belinda Andrews-Jones (09:32)

Yeah, there are many other ways to improve the veterinary profession but also to strengthen public assurance too. At the moment, veterinary nurses remain on the register if they pay their fee once a year and they will remain on there. Vets and veterinary nurses are meant to do their CPD, most do, most are great but some don't or at least they don't always tell us, which can be difficult. In other professions, regulators can stop people from re-registering if they are not compliant with CPD, so what we're looking for is to have the power to be able to be the same, which will be fair to everybody, will reassure the public that everybody's keeping up to date and all veterinary nurses should take responsibility for their learning and development. And this will help, ensure animal health and welfare.

Ben Myring (10:12)

Yeah and another aspect of licensing reform is conditional licenses. Jules, do want to talk us through a little bit about that?

Julie Dugmore (10:20)

absolutely. the introduction of different types of conditional licenses could apply in a few situations. For example, new registrants entering the profession, veterinary nurses returning to the register after a long time away, or those who have qualified overseas and want to practice in the UK. In many ways, I think veterinary nurses are already ahead of the curve. They're ahead of veterinary surgeons when it comes to having a structured return to practice process. Introducing conditional licences would give this process a clearer regulatory framework and would help support people returning to the profession safely and confidently. There's also discussions around advanced qualifications that potentially would fit in this remit. And the idea here would be that veterinary nurses undertake additional training to take on expanded responsibilities within the veterinary team. Ultimately, the changes are about recognising growing skills and expertise within the profession, while ensuring that there are clear standards and safeguards in place.

Ben Myring (11:22)

Yeah, that's it. So where conditional licensing is maybe adding additional supervision requirements, say to people coming back into practice, advanced qualifications for veterinary nurses would work differently in that they would allow people to do additional things following additional training. Belinda, do you want to talk a bit more about that?

Belinda Andrews-Jones (11:40)

One example is possibility of community or district nursing. What we're hoping for is that veterinary nurses will no longer need to be employed by the delegating veterinary surgeon. This means that RVNs will be able to work in multiple practices and help clients at their home.

Ben Myring (11:52)

And another possibility that we're looking at is a VN prescriber role. That actually isn't a reform of the Veterinary Surgeons Act. It's the veterinary medicines regulations that would need to be changed there. But the same kind of principle applies that through additional training, you would be able to do more. We've been carrying out some research to look at the kind of conditions that are usually seen when an animal is first presented and having a panel look through those conditions and symptoms to see whether they think that it's the sort of things that the ends might miss because of the different training they have and whether additional training could kind of bridge that gap to allow the ends to prescribe certain medications. So there could be some additional interesting news about VN reform coming out later. Jules, you mentioned allied professionals. Do want to talk to us a little bit more about how that might work under a new VSA?

Julie Dugmore (12:39)

Absolutely. I think I've already said that when we think about animal health and welfare, we often focus on vets and veterinary nurses, but in reality, care is delivered by a much wider team. It's increasingly collaborative and multidisciplinary, and the proposals would bring these professions under one regulated framework. The idea is that the College could have the power to create new professional registers in the future with new protected titles.

So just like veterinary nurses, it's about public assurance, making sure that anyone using a professional title is properly trained, qualified and regulated. Potential professions, I think I've already mentioned the musculoskeletal specialists, cattle foot trimmers and equine dental technicians. There's also the possibility of including veterinary technicians who work with livestock, giving them a formal recognised professional framework.

It's another way that the system could evolve to recognise specialist skills while ensuring safety and trust for the public and animals alike.

Ben Myring (13:42)

Yeah, another group that we've been looking at is clinical animal behaviourists. I think increasingly they play a very important part. It's probably also worth mentioning farriers because the consultation does mention the possibility that the regulator would regulate farriers who currently have got their own regulator and their own bit of legislation. But it might be that we would protect the title and be responsible for their regulation too. I think there's some logic there when you compare their work and their interaction with vets, to some of the people that we're looking to regulate. But I think we're sort of neutral on that question. But government may well end up deciding that farriers should come under the Veterinary Surgeons Act as well. So far, we've been talking about individual professional regulation, though. But another big part of the piece is regulation of practices and the businesses that own those practices.

Belinda, could you tell us a little bit about that?

Belinda Andrews-Jones (14:35)

Yes, So currently the RCVS only regulates vets and vet nurses. We have a practice standards, which is a fabulous thing, but it is only voluntary. So not all practices are complying with it. The consultation proposes that the RCVS would regulate businesses and practices. This would mean that all practices would be inspected for standards and this would help ensure what the public expect. Businesses would have a licensee, it would also have a responsible person who would be a registrant. So that would make sure that the profession are at the heart of any decision making with any practice. It could also mean that VNs could own their own businesses from a, for instance, district nurse point of view. So it could help with that area as well.

Ben Myring (15:12)

Yeah, it's of huge importance. If you think about what the Competition and Markets Authority are interested in, it's the business regulation side of things, transparency around pricing and ownership and I suspect that their recommendations are going to end up being quite linked to this area of business. Literally, that businesses should be regulated and enforcement powers be against businesses and practices rather than just on individual vets in order that those things can be enforced better than we can do now.

Something that links to that somewhat is this idea that the RCVS can be a scary monster that's here just to discipline people. And I think that's linked to our lack of modern powers when it comes both to practices, but also to the disciplinary side of things. And we've been looking at reform there. The consultation makes some proposals on this.

Jules, could you fill us in a bit about that?

Julie Dugmore (16:03)

So the idea would be to make the process more forward looking rather than focusing solely on what someone may have done wrong in the past. The emphasis would shift to whether a professional is currently fit to practise. So alongside this, there would be a wider range of sanctions. At the moment, the options are fairly binary. We can either strike somebody off or suspend somebody.

Whereas in other professions, the fitness to practise process can also allow regulators to put conditions on someone's licence, offering a more effective and proportionate approach. It means the system can protect the public while being less harsh on professionals, supporting remediation and ongoing professional development where appropriate.

Ben Myring (16:47)

That's right, and there will be the ability to take more into account things like mental health issues and so on. So you could be supportive in that respect and just ensuring that anybody on the register is fit to practise but not treating in a punitive way. I think that's going to be really important. The last thing that we should probably talk about is governance.

So yes, it's worth saying that the Royal College's current governance structure is very old fashioned for a regulator. So we currently have this big council of 24 people, which is a majority of veterinary surgeons on there and it's majority elected. Whereas if you look at pretty much any other regulator now, they have a small board on top of the organization and that would usually have 10 to 12 people on it.

It has what they call lay parity. So half of that number, that 10 or 12, would be drawn from the registrants that they're actually overseeing. So vets, veterinary nurses, potentially allied professionals in future. But the other half are what are called lay people. So they're drawn from any other profession. They're people that are recruited for their expertise in governance.

And governance is essentially making sure that the decisions that are a made throughout the organisation are being made properly, had proper consultation and so on and so forth. That's the skill set you're recruiting for people that know how that works. So we're expecting this in legislative reform. Our council will be replaced by a board of that nature that would be appointed for the expertise of the people that are on the board rather than being picked for any particular profession, whether veterinary surgeons or veterinary nurses. We would though expect that sitting underneath that board, there would be councils or faculties that would be dedicated to each profession that we regulate. So a little bit like we have Veterinary Nurse Council now, there would be a committee of some form like that for nurses, but also it would be a separate one for veterinary surgeons who don't currently have their own and there would be one for any new allied professions that we came to regulate in future, and those would all feed up to the new board. So you've got a kind of degree of autonomy within the structure for each profession. And I think that that idea that the board at the top is no longer majority of veterinary surgeons, that's very important because it demonstrates that the profession isn't setting and marking its own homework, if you like. And that could be quite impactful for the public who are kind of looking to be assured that that isn't happening. But Belinda, perhaps you'd want to say a little bit more about that.

Belinda Andrews-Jones (19:21)

Yeah, this is a really important governance area. And it can be quite hard for veterinary clinical people to actually kind of get their head around this, because it is something quite different. I'm just going back to what we mean by lay parity is they're not just random lay people that don't know what they're talking about. These are experts in their field. So they are doing kind of similar roles in a slightly different profession. So something that's similar to us, it could be dentistry, medical, could be law, all sorts of areas, but they are pure experts in their field. They're not making decisions on clinical matters or veterinary clinical matters. That is absolutely not what they would be doing. They would be from a much more of a higher governance point of view and there'll be lots of other committees underneath that will be doing clinical things.

I've certainly learned a huge amount over the years about regulation and it's quite a hard subject to kind of get your head around. But lay parity is really, really important to have. So like Ben says, not marking your own homework. I'm one of the rarer people I'm actually appointed rather than elected. So I have seen it all the way through. It is very much, you get chosen for your skills, knowledge, behaviour. You have to go through a really, strong kind of assessment to be chosen for that right position and it is really important that we don't just have vets within the governance and that we do have people that are based solely on their knowledge and skills. It shouldn't matter if they're a vet or vet nurse or a veterinary physiotherapist - it's based on their knowledge of regulation and how it works. I'm on the vet council and so is Kirsty. And we have exactly the same voting powers as all of the vets. And I'm very passionate to make sure that we have the right people for the right skills. And it shouldn't necessarily be based on their clinical background.

Ben Myring (21:01)

Yes, I always think it's fascinating to watch the sort of dynamic that we have between lay members of council and professional members of council. As lay people bring in that broader perspective of regulation and that helps to add to the big picture, I think. And then perhaps it's a sort of moderating influence as well. Or they moderate each other because you do need those professionals, those professional members of council as well to really understand how the profession works. So they do kind of moderate each other in that sense.

Ben Myring (21:28)

So final thoughts for me then, the consultation, as Belinda said, is due to finish on the 25th of March. Please do respond to that. The more that we get, the more likely we are to get what's called a bill slot. You know, any government has about 20 bills a year that they get to pass that then become law. And the more people that respond to this consultation, the more it will show that there is you know, support for this and that it's a good idea and it'll make government more likely to find us a bill slot.

In terms of timing, the consultation should get a formal response from government, so 12 weeks or so, maybe a little longer after the consultation closes, so sometime towards the summer. So that will be government, saying what their policy is based on having that consultation. And then if they're serious about this, you might then see the bill being drifted up over the course of following 12 months or so.

And if we're lucky, if everything goes to plan, we might hear about a new bill in the King's speech, perhaps next summer, summer next year. So there's still a whole lot of steps to go through and there's no guarantee that any of this is going to happen. But again, the more people that respond to the consultation, the more likely it is to happen.

Ben Myring (22:42)

So Belinda, as supremo of veterinary nursing. So any final words from you?

Belinda Andrews-Jones (22:47)

Yeah, this is such an important thing. Again, I can't stress anymore that this is not just a survey that doesn't count. This is massive. If you have ever wanted change in the veterinary professions, please, please respond to it. Your voice is so important with this. Take the time to complete it. It does take a little while. Give yourself time to do it. As Ben said, you don't have to fill in every single area of it and you can let your voice be heard. I'm a massive believer of change and hope for the future. And my motto is if a human nurse can do it, why can't we with the right skills and knowledge and behaviour? Why not for the future? Anything could be possible, but we need to hear you. So the more responses, the more chances that we have to get a bill slot. So yeah, thank you very much.

Abi Judd-English (23:47)

So continuing on the theme of looking to the future and the sort of ongoing evolution of the sector, we've got a really exciting project running at the moment and we've got Jules here again to tell us all about it and also Jill, who is our veterinary nursing progression and development lead. So yeah, we're here to talk about our VN Vision project, aren't we? Can I just ask you Jules, what is the VN Vision project and why was it created?

Julie Dugmore (24:11)

That's a very good question Abi. So some of our listeners may remember that back in 2015 we partnered with the British Veterinary Nursing Association and created the VN Futures project where we engaged with the profession at that point looking at opportunities for development and we came up with a report that was launched in 2016 that had six ambitions and 31 actions. And between ourselves and BVNA, over the following sort of period of six, seven years, we were working to address those actions. Obviously, we've had a lot of change in terms of landscape. We've been through the COVID pandemic. There's been workforce crisis, cost of living.

So at the end of 2024, when Jill and I were looking at the actions that we felt RCVS could continue to support and address, we felt that with the changes, that actually it was most important that we got out and chatted to people again to see were those actions still relevant? A lot of them, probably not. And actually what was relevant. Where did veterinary nursing fit in team-based healthcare in 2030, 2035? What would the role of the nurse look like at that point? And how would we get there? So that started really the very first VN Vision project. And we spent the better part of 2025 engaging with the professions. We spoke to, at that point, just veterinary nurses and student veterinary nurses, asking them that question around team-based healthcare. And we created then a snapshot report and an article that has been published in the Veterinary Nurse. And then following on from that and the retirement of VN Futures in August of 2025, we continued with VN Vision and strengthening the role and so that is the next part of this project.

Abi Judd-English (26:21)

Brilliant. Yeah, it's a really exciting project. It's been great to sort of see you and Jill going out there and speaking to so many amazing veterinary nurses and just professionals in general in the veterinary sphere, because I know it's not just nurses that you want to get involved. You want everyone to get involved, don't you? And that's something really important to us at the RCVS is getting that collaborative approach to things.

So yeah, Jill, what are the sort of key goals or long-term outcomes that the project is aiming to achieve, would you say?

Jill Macdonald (26:49)

Hi Abi. Yeah just to go back to your previous point, it has been amazing. Jules and I have just really enjoyed going out there, engaging with vet nurses, student vet nurses, but also veterinary surgeons, other support staff within the profession. It's just been such a rewarding couple of years, I suppose, and the amount of engagement and input we've had from the profession has been brilliant. But as Jules said, this started off as VN Vision and then that first derivative project to come from that was strengthening the role of RVNs in team-based veterinary healthcare. Because one of the things that kept coming out during our initial VN Vision events was that veterinary nurses were just not performing the role that they should be within practice.

They weren't performing to the maximum amount that they could do within the current legal framework. There was maybe just not that real integration of veterinary nurses and there wasn't a real feeling of a team-based approach to veterinary healthcare. It was kind of felt like vets and nurses were performing their roles in a more isolated way than we felt would be beneficial. And in fact, that the nurses that were coming to our events were saying they wanted to see and feel within practice. And that's what we really wanted to hone in on first, really looking at how nurses can maximise their role. So the overarching aim, I suppose, is, you know, how can vet nurses be more fully integrated into multidisciplinary teams, and how do we get there? So we've been trying to define those long-term goals. Think of really practical context specific, ways that we can achieve that and also how we can measure whether that's been successful or not. So we've been going around doing yet more workshops with the whole wider veterinary team, so vets, nurses and support staff and creating a theory of change which you may or may not have heard of which is basically a way of creating a sort step-by-step picture of how we achieve this long term goal.

Once we've gathered all that data, we'll perform a somatic analysis on that and create a theory of change from that data which is totally inputted to by the veterinary profession. It is fully co-designed. It isn't something that we've just thought of and this is how we need to tackle it. It's the profession coming to us and saying these are the issues we see, this is how we think it should be addressed. These are the steps we can take to achieve change.

Abi Judd-English (29:23)

Yeah, that's a really, really interesting point. I mean, it comes back to our strategic plan as well as a College overall, we're stronger together. That is our motto at the College. And I think it is getting everybody involved into those conversations to allow veterinary teams to thrive because veterinary nurses are such a vital part of the team and making sure that they are being given the opportunities to fully utilise their skills is just, so, so important.

Jill Macdonald (29:51)

Yeah it's been so valuable to hear what people are actually in the front line of the veterinary profession, what their thoughts and feelings are on how we can make these changes. And it's certainly not all been negative. A lot of them had some really positive thoughts to bring along that help us see how we can actually make this change happen.

Abi Judd-English (30:10)

Yeah, it's people just bringing fresh ideas and new perspectives. And that's why we want to engage with as many different people as possible, isn't it? It's getting those new ideas coming from everywhere, from across the profession. Jules, why is VN Vision so important for the professions right now, in the current climate? Because I know we obviously, well, you have the chat with Ben and Belinda just now sort of legislative reform, that is hard to get out. So yeah could you expand on that a little bit at all please?

Julie Dugmore (30:35)

Yeah, absolutely. Well, as I'm sure all of the listeners know, we are going through a very exciting period of change at the moment with the legislative reform, the consultation that DEFRA has currently got out, which closes on the 25th of March and if we get the changes that we are hoping we will get then it's really important that vets are comfortable and happy to delegate to their nurses and that nurses are empowered to ask for that delegation. At the moment, when you're on the register, you can be delegated to so long as the veterinary surgeon feels that you are confident, that you're competent, and that you as the nurse are happy to take that delegation on.

Moving forward with new legislation, hopefully the RCVS will be able to set the scope of practice and the amount of autonomy that might go with certain skills. So there will still be that element of delegation. So vets will still need to understand the skill sets of their nurses to be able to confidently and happily delegate and nurses will still need to take on that delegation and be empowered to do so.

Hopefully, I think we said when we were chatting to Ben, we're looking at the potential for your general practitioner, your enhanced, your advanced potentially prescriber roles. So it's a real exciting time at the moment for veterinary nurses that we need to embrace and we need to make sure that the profession is ready for and that the nurses are empowered to take that on.

Abi Judd-English (32:14)

Yeah, for sure. Completely agree with that. Yeah, brilliant project once again, so I can say. So, Jill, from your perspective, how do you think VN Vision is benefiting veterinary professionals, pet owners and animal welfare overall? It's a big question.

Jill Macdonald (32:32)

It is, it's a huge question and, ultimately we won't know the answer to that until we have, rolled out the project and it's actually happening within practice, but we've got really cohesive collaborative teams within practice that are all working together really closely and making much more effective, efficient use of each person's skills, that's going to result in more efficient practice. You know, there's potentially more opportunities for development for veterinary nurses, but also for nursing assistants and for veterinary surgeons as well. One of the things that's come out quite a lot when we've been talking to vets and nurses that are working really effectively as a team, is that it's not just the role satisfaction of veterinary nurses that benefits, it's the role satisfaction of the vets who are working alongside those nurses, because they're not taking all of the stress of seeing these sick patients and trying to catch up with routine appointments. The nurses are taking on a lot of those more routine areas of work and the vets have more time to focus on the more difficult cases and to dedicate their time and skill to that.

I think client experience as well, a lot of nurses are saying to us that where they're performing a more supportive role in practice, a more integrated role, that the clients really appreciate that. They really like to see veterinary nurses for more routine appointments, whether that be a booster or a recheck of an ear problem or something and they trust them. They feel able to talk to them. That's going to increase accessibility to veterinary care, improve patient outcomes. You know, patients are going to get seen quicker. And less stress, I think, across the profession. Improve mental health, because it's kind of like sharing the workload across that team.

Abi Judd-English (34:26)

Yeah, for sure. Because I mean, obviously it's called the VN Vision project, but it's not just about VNs is it? It's about the whole team efficiency and improving the sector for the better and making sure that we can continue to get stronger and move forward. So yeah, really key point there, I think, Jill. I know you're both obviously, fresh back from Leeds after coming down the M1 this afternoon from your most recent VN Vision session.

So how can people get involved and what should people be looking out for?

Jill Macdonald (34:53)

Our next sort of key step is going to be pulling all that data together and performing thematic analysis on it, working out what the key themes are, which we already have sort of some idea of because the data has shown some very definite clear trends. From that, we will develop a theory of change and then we will put that out for consultation to the professions.

So that is probably one of the key areas where people will be able to get involved. We're not gonna make it a big, huge, long, arduous consultation. It's gonna be a really nice, snappy, you know, this is what we're looking at. How does this look to you? How do you think this feels? Is this something that's achievable? And then further to that, we'll be looking at what the actual activities are, the key activities and resources that we need to develop to support the profession. So we will undoubtedly get the profession involved at that stage as well. So couple of key areas there where people can get involved and have their input, definitely.

Abi Judd-English (35:52)

Yeah, so thanks, Jill. So we'll obviously as well, we can put a link in the show notes to all of the VN Vision resources, including the snapshot report and any upcoming events so people can find out more information about the project. But yeah, I don't know if there's any final thoughts either of you wanted to add?

Jill Macdonald (36:08)

So just what you were saying then, Abi, about if people want to get involved, they can contact us directly via our dedicated VN Vision email address, which is [email protected]. So if you could put that in the notes as well, Abi, that would be brilliant. And if anyone's got any questions or comments or feedback on any of the workshops they've attended, then we'd be very happy to hear from them.

Abi Judd-English (36:32)

Perfect, will do. Thank you very much, Jill, and thanks Jules as well for your time this afternoon. You're welcome. Look forward to chatting about more VN Vision stuff soon.

Jill Macdonald (36:41)

Hopefully so, yeah. Thanks, Abi.

Abi Judd-English (36:58)

If you have any questions or queries about any of the content discussed today or any ideas for future podcast content, please get in touch at [email protected]. Many thanks to our fabulous guests today for sharing their invaluable expertise with us. And thanks to you, our listeners, for joining us today in tuning into this episode of the RCVS podcast. As always, we've provided a range of links to related content from today's chats in the show notes, so be sure to check these out.

And finally, because one final plug never hurt anyone, please do take the time to complete the DEFRA consultation if you haven't already done so. This is a once in a generation opportunity to have your say on the future of the professions. Many thanks and have a great week.